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Matt: Could you
give me your version of the State of the Union? |
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Matt: Obviously we are
talking about the War with Iraq, one question I get asked
a lot by kids who know my views is what would I do. What
would I do with Saddam not meeting the UN and killing
his own innocent people, so what would you do Pat?
Pat: Here is why
that question is difficult. It is difficult to answer
because the information is so incorrect. Saddam was much
more of a tyrant and a threat to his own people back when
we were supporting him. There was much more instances
of him and his brutality back in 1989 back before the
first Gulf War. True, Saddam is not my friend, I have
no interest in him at all I think he is an evil person
and I would not support him in anyway. However, in that,
we need to ask ourselves what should of we done 15 years
ago? We should not have supported him or given him the
green light to go into Kuwait, we should not have given
him weapons to fight Iran. With Afghanistan, we should
not have tried to use the Afghan country and the Afghan
people as ponds in the Cold War, to suck the Soviet Union
into Vietnam War. Having said that, what do we do now?
We don’t do things we are doing now because what
we are doing now is creating problems for the future.
We need to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. If the
US does pull out of Iraq right now it will be completely
fucked up. However there will be less people that are
dead. Right now there are people dying every day. If there
are two Americans dying every day, there are far more
Iraqis dying. It will probably leave a power vacuum in
Iraq, bad things will happen but not as bad as what is
going on right now. So the end result is to get the US
out and the UN in, and have them have control over the
resources they have and control of the government they
will create.
Matt: Do you think that
we should help build a democracy over there or not?
Pat: We see, that’s a complete fictitious statement;
the US does not want to build a democracy in Iraq. A democracy
is a very difficulty type of government to control.
Matt: Or create.
Pat: Exactly, or create,
because people have a say in a democracy. And the US says
they want this, what they created, in the Philippines,
which was a Dictatorship. Which is a lot easier to control.
The guy in Pakistan, he is a Military dictator, but he
is very easy to control, because he control the whole
show in Pakistan. In a democracy, the Shiites would have
a say, and the Americans don’t want the Shiites to
have a say. Same with the fundamentalists, Americans don’t
want them to have a say.
Matt: What do you think
of the whole gubernatorial race for Governor?
Pat: It’s wacky huh?
Matt: Yeah, personally I voted for Jack Grisham of
T.S.O.L.
Pat: Oh you did? Good! He is an interesting character.
We were on Warped Tour a couple years ago and they were
too, I didn’t get a lot of chance to spend time with
him, but the time I did, man he was an interesting guy.
Matt: What do you think of Arnold?
Pat: I think it is very scary that he was elected
because you realized people don’t care about substance
or about them, or taking care of the people, they only
care about movies and sound bites. But what’s even
scarier is to face George W. Bush could be re-elected
in 2004.
Matt: Good thing Fat Mike is putting together that Rock
Against Bush CD.
Pat: Yeah hopefully that will have an impact. Hopefully
a lot of the young people, the 18 to 25 year olds will
go out and vote.
Matt: I have been reading the polls; less and less
people are supporting him.
Pat: True but he holds all the cards, something like
all of a sudden he finds weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq, could be very scary. Like what happened with the
election of 2000, you can’t put anything past him.
He is capable of many things.
Matt: I remember reading on your website that you claim
at the end of a news page, look how much different America
would be if 533 more people would have voted, so I was
wondering if you believe he did win the election fairly
or do you believe the whole, Michael Moore conspiracy?
Pat: Well, when
you look at the election, there is really no winner or
loser. When you start looking at the apparatus of the
election system, with the Electoral College, it’s
all manipulated. Look at Katherine Harris, she is now
a Republican in the House of Reps, she was obviously given
that because she contributed to Bush winning the election.
So, all that stuff is so, political, but what were trying
to get at was that for 530 people, Gore is not my friend
either, I am not a big fan of him, but I think he would
of done stuff a lot differently. So what we are trying
to say is, if that many people, if a thousand people showed
up, a thousand 19 year olds who listen to punk rock, things
could have been a lot different. On our new record we
have a thing about registering to vote, a lot of people
don’t realize we have a voice.
Matt: I think the biggest
problem with the punk scene is kids not going out and
doing something about it. That’s why I think the
protest song you guys wrote was such a great song, it
just said, you listen to us, now go out and do something
about it, which I thought was great. Do you think any
of the protesting did any good?
Pat: Yes I do,
defiantly. We could be in Iran or Syria right now because
that’s what they were planning to do and because
of the Americans and the British stood up and said we
don’t support this crap. Granted we still went into
Iraq and still did what they wanted to do but they didn’t
have the flag slate and say we can do whatever we want
to do and we have the American people behind us. So I
definitely think that had an impact.
Matt: I remember reading
on your website, you were going to have a protest of a
protest, for the death of Mr. Rogers.
Pat: Yeah, that one guy, who ran that website, but
yeah we were out of town for that, that was Annie, who
works on the office, that was her thing. I knew it was
going on.
Matt: Yeah I couldn’t believe how messed up that
was, him saying, you can’t be yourself, because if
you are gay, gays are horrible.
Pat: Yeah, not
cool.
Matt: Comparing your lyrics
from Mobilize and The Terror State, the
political offense is definitely greater; do you think
the punk scene needed more revival back then or now?
Pat: I think that
we were angry. We were definitely angry young people,
and we weren’t sure on where the anger should be
going, so we wrote songs about the punk rock community
because that’s what we were. Now we are angry but
we have a more focused mature view and we understand things
a lot better than we did back then. That’s why this
new record is focused on political issues, because that’s
what we are dealing with now. However, with saying that,
the next record is all going to be songs about drinking
beer and having a good time.
(Laughter)
Matt: Hopefully
by the time you make your next record all this war crap
will be over with so you don’t have to write songs
about it.
Pat: Ha, definitely
that’s the idea; we can sing songs about drinking
beer and smashing bottles at a punk show.
Matt: I remember reading
Fat Mike saying, Bush was good for the punk scene because
it gave everyone something to be mad about.
Pat: I would rather
not have that problem. (Laughter)
Matt: What is your political
stance? Like, what would you call yourself?
Pat: I would call myself a socialist border lining on
a Communist. Now, in my personal life, I am much more
of a communist, in the way we run our business, we divide
everything equally.
Matt: Well that’s good; usually Communism is looked
down upon.
Pat: Yeah exactly,
and why is that, if you look at communism, it doesn’t
make sense, it is because the US Government wanted to
be the Imperials, they didn’t want us to be communists
so they said communism is bad. I try to have equality
of wealth and things like that. In many cases you cant
do that, but on a global side, I am much more of a Socialist,
I think we need to redistribute and give everyone much
more of an equal share.
Matt: I read on the FAQ
of your website that whoever answers those questions responded
to my question that I asked you to go to the Green party
website. But at the same time, Jay from Bad Religion posted
on punkvoter.com that the Republicans pay for some of
the Green Party so the Democrats and the Green Party split
the vote. So it is not good to support the Green Party?
Pat: Here is the
problem, in 2000, people on the left believed Gore and
Bush were not that separate, so, the left wasn’t
too concerned on who was going to be elected, we were
hoping Gore would, but they were so similar, it wouldn’t
really matter. So people took it upon their selves to
try to get a third party in. In doing that, Bush got elected,
not because the Green party got all the votes, but because
Gore was such a poor candidate. Now we have seen all the
evil things Bush can do, and you can see, there is no
talk of a third party, we just need to get Bush out of
office. Hopefully in the future we will have a third party
and a candidate that truly represents them; at this point
I will vote for anyone who is not George W. Bush.
Matt: One issue I wanted
to get your opinion on is illegal aliens. The thing that
gets me is that they are illegal, as in people not legal,
living here, what are your thoughts on this subject?
Pat: Here is the
problem. If I drew a line right here, and you are on this
side and I am on the other, does that mean you are less
of a human being, and you don’t deserve to have health
care, or not have food, shelter, and the rights of any
other person? See this line is an artificial separation
and it doesn’t really exist, in that, no one should
be considered illegal, no one should be separate. That’s
my feeling on illegal aliens; see in Pittsburgh, we don’t
have that situation here like you do in California. That’s
how I feel about it, that no one is illegal. If the same
things happen in the 30s and 40s when the people in Oklahoma
and Kansas wanted to come to California but they wouldn’t
let them into California because they weren’t Californians.
Matt: I agree with
that but some of it is that California was being over
populated with so many people wanting to get work.
Pat: True, but
here is the thing, most of the time, people are complaining
about illegal aliens, the jobs they are taking are the
jobs the legal people don’t want anyway. Granted
it does happen but its much less of an issue than people
make it out to be.
Matt: One of the questions
I get asked a lot, even by my mom, is why you have to
turn the flag upside down and you have the flag burner
patch. I tell them the upside down flag is a distress
signal so people can learn the real problems of the US.
Everyone keeps telling me it shows disrespect. So I respond,
they don’t like the government and the flag and what’s
happening, and they always respond, well the flag doesn’t
stand just for the government.
Pat: See that’s
the problem, that’s the question. During last May,
when Bush was on the aircraft carrier saying we have one
this War and he is grabbing the flag. I see the flag as
the Nazi Flag, as a Swastika, saying, we have the power,
we have control, if you don’t agree with us, we will
get rid of you and destroy you. In that, I don’t
want to have anything to do with that. Now if the flag
really stood for the people, a lot of people say it’s
the people’s flag, God Bless it. If we can pull the
American Flag away from that, I am in favor of that completely.
But right now it is representing the regime and power
who is using it to overrun people.
Matt: They also say it
supports the troops, do you support our troops?
Pat: I feel really
bad for them. I have friends who were in the first Gulf
War, and I think they have been swindled, and many of
the guys I know went into the military to get an education.
The government is using these people as weapons, and when
they come back, they take away the veterans benefits that
they worked their asses off for. That’s why not many
people are volunteering for the military as much in the
last 6 months, because they don’t want to go get
their ass shot off so Bush can give the contracts to Halliburton
and come back and have half a leg.
Matt: But you would support
them in the face they are humans fighting for our rights?
Pat: No, I disagree
with that because I don’t think they are fighting
for our rights, I think they are fighting for George Bush’s
regime. I feel passion for them for being stuck in a situation
that they have to do that. They are not fighting for freedom
or democracy; they are fighting for an imperialist power
that is running people. If they told the soldiers, here
we are going to use you as a weapon so a few people here
in the US can get more money, I am sure no one would want
to join.
Matt: I think Mike
Ness from Social Distortion put it best, he said, “I
support our troops, I don’t agree with the government’s
policies but those guys as old as you are over there so
we could be here tonight.”
Pat: I will accept
that but I don’t think they are fighting for my freedom
at all. If Saddam Hussein had an army and was attacking
Florida, then I could see them fighting for our rights.
But that’s not what was going on.
Matt: Tom Morello produced
this album, what is he like?
Pat: He is a really
cool guy. He is very intelligent, very knowledgeable about
social and political issues, and a really great musician.
Matt: It was Chris and Justin playing guitar on the
CD right?
(Laughter)
Pat: Yeah, we wanted him to play, but when we were recording,
it was when Audioslave was doing a bunch of stuff.
Matt: Its horrible that Rage had to break up.
Pat: It sucks,
you realize that bands at that level are just a bunch
of dudes who fight and don’t get along.
Matt: Something I don’t
believe you guys don’t talk too much about is Religion.
Pat: That’s funny, because 2 is very anti-religious.
Man if you get him started on religion he goes crazy.
I have a much more tolerant view than number 2 does. If
it gets you through the day, whether its drugs or alcohol,
as long as you are not hurting anybody else, God Bless
you. I am not going to bad mouth anybody for their beliefs
if it gets them though the day.
Matt: Yeah I just read George Bush is trying to lessen
the margins in between the separation of church and state.
Pat: Yep he is a creepy dude!
(Laughter)
Matt: Your next shirt should have a picture of him
and have it say creepy dude under it.
Pat: Haha, that’s
good, I like that! You know we aren’t for stealing
ideas from people we talk to, but if we do that, you know
when you see it, it was your idea!
Matt: Alright, my last
question is a question about sources. When I debate with
people, parents, teachers, friends, pretty much everyone,
whenever I present a fact they ask, where did you hear
that? Everyone knows CNN is full of crap, no one watches
that anymore, so I can’t say I heard it from CNN.
If I say, punkvoter.com, americanfreepress.com, they just
say, well that’s pure left side views and of course
they are going to say that. So pretty much, no matter
what I say people are going to think I made it up.
Pat: Debating is
a great thing to do; my father and I did it all the time.
That’s the big thing here. You know, Anti-Flag may
be full of shit. And, I don’t believe it, but it
is possible. But the fact is we are out there, raising
issues that cause debate so we can find solutions to these
problems. Not just, hey, that guy fucked me up so I am
going to go beat his ass and his whole family’s ass,
which makes no sense whatsoever. So we need to have multiple
points of view to figure solutions out to these problems.
The way we are going now with Fox News and CNNs is we
are getting a monolith of information which is completely
detrimental to all people, not just America. Because when
you have that, you have people that can control that and
fool you. As far as the left wing information, they should
be talking about that stuff and presenting that information.
That’s not a problem. The other thing is, we have
started a website called undergroundactionalliance.org.
We are trying to defuse that because people say Anti-Flag
is full of shit, I hate their music why should I listen
to them? And what we are saying is here are the ideas,
it doesn’t have to do anything with Anti-Flag or
the music. Let's focus on the ideas and not what we sound
like. And with undergroundactionalliance.org we work with
this girl Annie, who will give you the source whether
if it is the AP Wire or the Guardian in the UK, the Nation
Magazine, and cite the sources.
Matt: Thanks, anything
you want to say before we go?
Pat: Yeah, if you think I am full of shit write to
us at a-f
records.com. Or:
PO BOX 71266
Pittsburgh Pa 15213.
http://www.anti-flag.com/
http://www.fatwreck.com/
Anti-Flag interview and pictures by Matt
Pierce.
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