sandiegopunk.com
4/25/02 Pedro The Lion—David
Bazan
Christian rock.
Go ahead. Say it with me.
Christian rock.
| Did you cringe? Did you snicker? Do you feel nauseous? If so, you’re not alone. Studies show that 73.8764% of the population experiences similar side-effects from saying, hearing, or reading the term “Christian rock” (or any type of music that uses the Christian prefix, for that matter). Why? Because, quite simply, most Christian rock sucks. No matter how much the vocalist screams or how loud the guitars are, it’s still safe, wholesome, inoffensive, and chock full of some Almighty ass-kissin.’ It’s rock-lite: generic, half-assed |  |
Pedro The Lion is NOT Christian rock.
Pedro The Lion is “just” a great indie rock band. It’s honest, sincere, challenging, and open-minded, with beautiful melodies and the sluggish, stoned-sounding vocals of David Bazan (vocalist, guitarist, songwriter, and…well, David Bazan basically IS Pedro The Lion). But because Bazan is a Christian, the band has had the misfortune of sometimes getting tagged as Christian rock.
Please don’t refer to Pedro The Lion as Christian rock ever again.
It took several days of one-ended phone tag and a flustered Jessica Hopper to finally get ahold of Mr. Bazan (hence the “Sorry to fuck you over so many times” comment), but once I finally did, I discovered that he’s probably THE nicest guy EVER.
David: Hey, how’s it goin’ man? Sorry to fuck you over so many times.
Scott: Oh, no problem. It happens. So, are you ready to go here?
D: Hell, yeah.
S: Well, then first, I was reading an interview with Insound…well, okay, I’ve heard two things about your name: one is that it was a children’s story that you came up with, and then I read an interview where someone said that you got it from Lou Barlow?
D: Oh, no, um…that rings a bell, I’m trying to think what that was. I think I’ve heard about that before. But no, I didn’t get it from Lou Barlow. At the time I started the band, I didn’t really even, like wasn’t super aware that he like existed or whatever, so I just kind of thought of it. I’d like to give credit to him though, ‘cause I don’t really like the name, but (laughing) I came up with it
S: So why don’t you just change it?
P: Actually, I’m getting ready to do that, but just with like the Jade Tree thing. I signed for three records, so I wanna finish out all three records for them, and then I’m hoping to start a couple of other bands besides Pedro The Lion and maybe not really do Pedro The Lion anymore.
S: What are some possible bands for the future?
D: Um, I haven’t nailed it down quite yet. I’m gonna just try to write a bunch of music first, and then sort of come up with it. Usually, I talk a lot about “I’m gonna do this or I’m gonna do that” and then it never happens. So I’m trying to just…I’m gonna wait until it exists until I start talking about it.
S: Okay. But as far as Pedro The Lion goes, is it just you, or is it officially a multi-person band now?
D: I think officially it’s just me, but I always have different guys playing, and now I’ve got a couple guys that are probably gonna be pretty regular. But I think we’ve also kinda realized that the nature of the band is just me and, ‘cause when it comes to recording and stuff like that, usually I just do everything and take care of it all, and sometimes I’ll have somebody helping me out or helping me produce the thing or whatever. So yeah, that was kinda the realization why here, at some point. And everybody, I think, agrees that’s the most healthy way to approach it.
S: I noticed you guys tended to, uh, rock the fuck out a little bit more on the new album.
D: Yeah.
S: Is there any reason why? You just kinda had the urge?
D: Well, I’ve wanted to make rock music for awhile, but it was always super forced whenever it would come out. Without really realizing it, when these songs started happening, like I just realized that they were, there was a lot more rock songs and they just really naturally went that way so…
S: What does the term “Christian rock” mean to you?
D: Well, I see it as like a…well, it’s a subcategory of music that denotes bands who are made up of Christians wanting to make music that has Christian slogans in it for the purpose of selling to Christians and Christian book stores. But I mean, a lot of people have a lot of different ideas. A lot of people would consider Pedro The Lion Christian rock because I’m a Christian, but then other people maybe have a similar mindset as I do. You know, usually, I think when that term is applied, it can be pretty destructive, just ‘cause it puts a big pretense on what’s going on when that may not be what the person’s trying to do.
S: So would you consider yourself Christian rock?
D: I wouldn’t consider Pedro The Lion Christian rock, but like I said, a lot of other people would, and I don’t really care for that, but that’s just the way it goes.
S: Well, with that Christian rock label on you, it seems kinda surprising that a lot of the indie community has like attached to you so much. I mean, usually it’s like anything remotely Christian is instantly considered shit in the indie rock circles, ya know? Why do you think that people have followed you?
D: Well, I don’t know. I think it probably just has to do…you know…like, I listen to…in most ways, I’m the same as a lot of the people that buy indie rock records or whatever. I listen to indie rock, or I listen to rock n roll. A lot of what’s good is coming out on independent labels, and I really care about independent music and rock and roll in general, so I think that I would have a lot in common with like your average rock and roll listener. And so, I think because of that, I make music that I would like as a rock n roll listener. So I think it’s just as simple as that. Whereas maybe bands that are more squarely Christian rock bands, it’s a different thing. Like they listen to Christian rock or they’re a part of Christian rock in a way that kind of colors it, but you know, like, I like to go and hang out in bars and drink beer and listen to music. Just like everybody that I know in Seattle, and so I think that’s just it. It’s like you know, none of us that play in Pedro the Lion are any different than anybody that we would hang out with in any town or whatever. I think that has a lot to do with it, ‘cause I’m not coming from some place that’s like completely other.
S: Do you think it’s limiting for bands to, you know, all they do is sing about God every other word, every song, play just churches and Christian bookstores. It seems like it’s kinda narrowing your range there.
D: I agree, and for me it’s a theological issue as far as like my faith and what I perceive that God would…I mean, He created music and art, and I don’t think that he’s that narrow. But I agree, and I think it’s just, it’s more of a product of a culture than it is the direct application of somebody’s beliefs. There’s this culture that is attempting to really control people’s actions, and that’s the way that they found to do it is to create this sub-genre of music that is given the stamp of approval and…yeah, it’s really limiting. You know, your palette or whatever as somebody who writes songs, it’s teeny. You can’t really break out of it at all, and I think it’s really important for a person to be creative in whatever way they feel like.
S: Plus, a lot of the Christian bands that I’ve heard suck, and I think if I was God or Jesus, I’d be kinda pissed off that people were writing all these shitty songs about me.
D: Yeah, I agree (laughing). I totally agree. That’s the thing. I definitely do have a desire to write about redemptive themes that I experienced in my life. But because I feel like they’re so profound, I don’t take it lightly, and I don’t think that I should put out a song about that that’s not really, really good. And it’s difficult because it’s hard to write about those things. But I agree about what you said because a lot of people don’t take it seriously, and they just write whatever shit comes to them about God or whatever, and I agree. I would be pissed off, and I kinda have a feeling that God or Jesus are kinda bummed.
S: (laughing) Like, damnit! You’re going to hell for that!
D: (laughs)
S: What’s the Christian response to your kind of music? You’ve been labeled by a lot of people as a Christian, but for songs like “Rapture,” you liken an adulterous orgasm to Jesus calling you to Heaven, which I could see people considering blasphemy. Are people responding to that favorably?
D: Well, there’s a pretty mixed response. I’ve gotten just about as many emails on either side, but there are plenty of people that are saying, “I’m returning the record to Jade Tree. I’ve read the lyrics, and I can’t in good conscience support your band” or whatever. And then there’s been just as many people saying, “I’m a Christian, and it’s really comforting and it’s frank to see somebody who’s also a Christian writing music that appears to be honest” or whatever. So it’s kind of mixed. And I really don’t have a good idea yet exactly how’s it gonna come out, but yeah, that song in particular. Actually I think there were other references that people reacted to a lot quicker like “corporate cum” or that I said the word “shit” on the last song.
S: Yeah, “oooh”
D: What now?
S: Like, oooh, wow, you said a bad word!
D: I think that some of these people are really earnest and smart people. Like there’s just some kids who are growing up and don’t know how to process it and are figuring out what they believe about things, and it’s challenging in a way that is too much. Like “I looked up to you at some level, and now I don’t understand what’s going on” ‘cause they don’t have a frame of reference that…you know, in like youth group, cussing is just not okay. At all. There’s no room in their ideas about God for it to be all right to say swear words. So, I feel like they’re just really perplexed and don’t know what to do. And so I feel for them ‘cause I was one of those kids, but at the same time, I feel like hopefully in a few years, it’ll make sense and they’ll be able to enjoy the record. But right now it’s difficult for them.
S: So what inspires your lyrics then? Are they autobiographical at all?
D: No, they’re not. I used to do autobiographical, confessional kind of lyrics, but something started happening where I was really obsessed with writing songs, so I was really inward focused a lot and really focused on myself and my thoughts and feelings in a way that I ended up becoming really self-absorbed. And I started realizing that most of the songs I’ve ended up writing have some sort of nativity[?] to them, and I realized that I don’t want my life to be fucked up, and if I don’t have a fucked up life, if my life’s happy, then if I try to write autobiographical songs, then what am I going to do for songs or whatever, and I just started writing fiction. And that’s really what’s exciting to me anyway. Films and books and stuff. So, I just started writing fiction, and now I find that I write all this fictional stuff that really is more personal than any autobiographical confession could be because I’m really able to explore my thoughts and ideas about things and what I’m thinking and feeling in ways that are maybe a little more honest because I don’t have to, I don’t have the burden of like having…this sounds weird. It’s more honest, I think, because I don’t have the burden of it needing to be factual. And so I’m able to just kinda go on the whims of what’s in there. But I’m not actually plumbing the depths of me or anything stupid like that. Like I’m not really thinking about it. I’m just coming up with stories and stuff, so I really enjoy doing it this way.
S: Are you ever going to write children’s books?
D:I don’t really think so. I mean, I don’t forsee me doing that at this point, but I’m not totally sure.
S: But that is where the Pedro The Lion name came from, right?
D: Right, I mean there was a story that kinda went along with that, but then whenever I went to sit and write it out like 5 years ago or whatever, it was just so bad that I just thought, Well, I’m not even gonna pursue this. I mean, it was just really, really poor.
S: ‘Cause I mean, I could see people saying “Well this guy writes about people having sex! I don’t want him writing books for kids!” You know?
D: (Laughing) Yeah.
S: He says shit!
D: Yeah, that’s not gonna help. Or it’s kinda the Shel Silverstein thing where the dude writes for Playboy magazine, but he also makes poetry books for kids and whatever.
S: He wrote for Playboy?! I didn’t know that.
D: Yeah, he did like sex cartoons and did little..I think that’s what it is. He did cartoons. Maybe he wrote some other stuff, but yeah.
S: I didn’t know that.
D: I thought that was funny when I was a little kid.
S: Yeah, ‘cause I read A Light In The Attic and all that stuff, and I never knew. I guess my parents kinda hid that from me.
D: Oh right. It wasn’t necessarily in the backs of those books. I can’t remember where I saw it. But it was kind of…it made me feel kind of weird and dirty or something.
S: Enh. Whatever. Thanks Shel.
S: What are you listening to right now? What are your favorite records these days?
D: Um, I’m trying to think. There’s this Constantines record. This band called the Constantines, from Canada, that’s really good. It’s out on this Canadian label called Three Gut Records. I’m trying to think… the cds I brought on tour…are U2--Joshua Tree; Fugazi—End Hits; The Breeders--Last Splash; Tom Petty—Wildflowers; Fugazi--Red Medicine; The Cure--Staring At The Sea Singles; Death Cab For Cutie--We Have The Facts And We’re Voting Yes; The new Wilco record; Longmont Posher Castle [sp?], which is like these prank call tapes; Miles Davis--Kind Of Blue; Miles Davis--Bitches Brew; Aphex Twin--Rchard D. James Album; Willie Nelson—Teatro. That’s what I brought, but I was just kinda scrambling to… my life and my cds are kinda scattered around, and these are the ones I found.
S: Is the new Wilco record as good as everyone says?
D: Um, it’s, I don’t know. It’s weird. I think it’s pretty cool, but I could see some other Wilco fans being maybe not that into it.
S: Oh really. ‘Cause like Rolling Stone, for whatever that’s worth, gave it record of the year so far. But then I read Pitchfork gave it a ten.
D: Yeah, I’m sure. It’s just kinda pushing the limits of what they had done before. Jim O’Rourke definitely did some…the production is very ambitious and kinda quirky or whatever. But I think it’s cool. It’s one of those that the first time I heard it, it was a little bit of an overload. I didn’t know what to do with it.
(Stops to give directions to person driving the car he’s in.)
D: Sorry about that.
S: Well, I don’t want to take up too much of your time anyway, so I think we should be movin’ along here. But it was nice to finally get ahold of you, and I’ll be seeing you when you come to San Diego. You’re coming to the Casbah, I believe?
D: Yeah.
S: All right. Well, I will see you then. And, uh, enjoy the rest of your tour, and uh, I guess that’s it.
D: Cool man. You know, you should come up and say hey or whatever at the Casbah.
S: See, I’m always kinda nervous about that. Like I’ve seen people who take liberties like “Well I did an interview with this guy, so therefore I’m his best friend and I can hang out with him all night long” and blah blah blah.
D: Well, I mean, I think if I talk to somebody on the phone for awhile or whatever it’s kinda cool to put a face to the voice or just say hey or…I mean, for me, I don’t know if it’s the same for other people, I think that it does warrant some personal contact.
S: Do you still have that moustache in your press photo?
D: No, it’s a beard now. Now it’s a moustache, but it’s also a beard.
S: Aah, see that was a tight moustache. I was thinking about growing one of those. One where it goes down to your chin. That’s pretty solid, I think.
D: It was kinda funny. I had done it on tour a little bit, and I just decided to do it. But my wife was really, really bummed. Yeah, she hated it.
S: I guess, sometimes they do have a say in how you look though. They have certain things they can weigh over your head. Things they can deny you.
D: Right.
http://www.pedrothelion.com
http://www.jadetree.com
Pedro the Lion interview conducted by Scott Batiuk.
Pedro the Lion picture couresy of http://www.pedrothelion.com
Parts of this interview were originally used for Slamm Magazine. Thank you to Slamm for allowing us to re-use the interview as a whole.
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